19 Replies Latest reply on Jun 22, 2009 8:48 PM by spilon

    PI server x86 to x64

      So it is that time of the week again and I have been thinking (I like to call it research & development)...

       

      Have seen a client that is embarking on migrating from a 32bit PI system to a 64bit Win2k3 server and questions being asked what should they do - install 32bit PI system on the 64bit Win2k3 server, restore PI system then upgrade the PI system to x64 OR just do a straightforward install of x64 PI system and restore the PI system from x86 OR forget x64 and just stick to x86.

       

      I am interested to seek more information if there are any immediate hurdles to get over with such a scenario.  My immediate thoughts are the x86 won't restore "nicely" onto an x64 system (maybe I am wrong?), some interfaces are still 32bit, will something get corrupted (pipoints??)?

       

      What is the current norm now, are x64 systems more common?

       

       

        • Re: PI server x86 to x64

          Thanks for the important question.

           

          First, we do support and encourage taking advantage of the 64-bit architecture. Then, regarding migration/upgrade, the  KB Article #3272OSI8  (on the Tech Support website) will most likely give you all the answers you need.

           

           

           

          Essentially...

           

          RJK Solutions

          install 32bit PI system on the 64bit Win2k3 server, restore PI system then upgrade the PI system to x64

           

          No, don't do that!

           

          RJK Solutions

          just do a straightforward install of x64 PI system and restore the PI system from x86

           

          Right on!

           

          RJK Solutions

          forget x64 and just stick to x86

           

          nah...

            • Re: PI server x86 to x64
              dvacher

              Thanks Steve.

               

              I confirm that all PI Server configuration and data files are 100% compatible between 32-bit and 64-bit.

               

              There is still a minority of production systems running 64-bit PI, but it is growing rapidly, especially for large point counts (500K and above).

                • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                  Guys thanks for the info...Steve thanks for the KB Article.

                   

                  So if I am hearing you right, you can still follow procedures for moving PI servers to a x64 with no extra consideration required?
                  By the way, do you know approximately what the largest PI system tag count is that you have seen?

                    • Re: PI server x86 to x64
                      cescamilla

                      Take into consideration that there are some things (other than the PI Server) that can not run on 64 bits, as for example the curretn release of RtWebParts.

                       

                      So, even when migrating the PI Server is o.k., migrating the webserver will prove to be a problem.

                       

                       

                        • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                          Without getting too political, I have noticed that advice coming from OSI (not from vCampus) is that a 32 bit PI system should be installed (on 64 bit OS) for migrating a server from a 32 bit PI system.  I would have preferred the system was just a straight 64 bit install and the migration was completed but when OSI say something clients tend to follow their advice.

                           

                          So this still makes me wonder why OSI recommend this method for migration..?

                            • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                              @RJK: can you be more specific as per where at OSI that advise is coming from? We'll try to make sure the various sources of information are on the same page.

                                • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                                  Hi Steve, It came from the Client's EA PM.

                                    • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                                      Then please tell him/her to come read on vCampus

                                       

                                      Essentially, there's 2 different courses of actions not to confuse:

                                      1. Upgrade of 32bit PI Server to 64bit PI Server, on the same machine: as per the KB Article I referred to earlier, the Setup kit for the 64-bit versions of the PI Server do not support upgrade an existing 32-bit PI Server to 64-bit. In order to convert an existing 32-bit build of PI to a 64-bit version, you have to install the 64-bit version to a different drive on that computer or to a different computer, then move the PI Server data to that new installation.
                                      2. Move of a 32bit PI Server on a 32bit machine, to a 64bit PI Server on a 64bit machine (which seems to be what you want to do): you can simply install a clean 64-bit install of the PI Server on the new machine and then copy the files from the old server following the instructions outlined in Chapter 7 "Moving PI Servers" of the "PI System Server Management Guide" (available on the vCampus Library).
                                        (as a side note, the guide has not been updated recently, so Step 4 (pg. 148) is outdated: the "PISysID.dat" file has been replaced with the "piserver.dat" (for a stand-alone server) and the "picollective.dat" (for a collective) files).

                                      Hope this helps!

                                      • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                                        Steve,

                                         


                                        I used vCampus as weight behind my argument for x64 bit fesh install (option 2 in your post) but response was

                                         

                                        "Managed PI and some other products are 32 bit.  Unfortunately this contradicts advice from vCampus."

                                         

                                        Now I know 32 bit "interfaces" can run fine on a 64 bit OS hence the core PI system being x64 is fine.  Or is Managed PI really reliant on a 32 bit PI system..? (I would hope not.)

                                          • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                                            Ahhhh... there's Managed PI in the picture! Then the answer is that you should simply install a 32-bit PI Server even though it's a 64-bit machine. The EA Client's EPM was absolutery right about that: Managed PI is currently not supported on 64-bit PI Servers. You should probably open a TechSupport call for that, such that this enhancement request gets filed in correctly and gets attached to that particular PLI.

                                             

                                            I'll personally file in a request to clarify the KB Article I referred to, to include that information.

                                              • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                                                Steve, indeed mPI is in the picture...somewhere on the horizon.  I guess this is the "restriction" I was after when I first started this thread.

                                                 

                                                I just found this KB article too.

                                                Managed PI - Managed PI is supported on 64-bit Windows. However, Managed PI cannot monitor the 64-bit release of the PI Server. Therefore if the PI Server is going to be Managed, and the Windows OS is 64-bit, then the PI Server must be 32-bit version.

                                                 

                                                Without going too deep, what is the mPI monitoring restriction?  Assuming PI-SDK is being used for monitoring so why the 64-bit restriction or is mPI much more intimately linked with the PI system?

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                  • Re: PI server x86 to x64
                                                    cescamilla

                                                    I'm kind of shooting in the dark, but I'm pretty sure that it is not due to the PI SDK... as it is working on 64bits already, it is mainly due to the additional tools that are required for monitoring (tools that do not depend on the PI SDK)... and, until those tools and its dependancies are supported mPI won't be able to run completely on a 64-bit platform.

                                                     

                                                    Maybe mPI team or SDK team could clarify this. I'll go bother them!

                                                    • Re: PI server x86 to x64

                                                      Rhys @ RJK Solutions

                                                      I just found this KB article too.

                                                       

                                                      In fact this is the same article I first referred to, which didn't contain this paragraph in the first place. My intuition tells me this addition has something to do with my last statement ("I'll personally file in a request to clarify the KB Article I referred to, to include that information.") 

                                                       

                                                      Cristobal's "shot in the dark" was in the right direction: the main reason why you cannot use mPI on a 64-bit PI Server has to do with the performance counters we use to monitor the system, and how they are published differently between 32-bit and 64-bit applications. Essentially, whether or not we use PI SDK to evaluate (and take action on) the data that's brought into our Network Operating Center (NOC), we first need to bring it there (obviously!). The tool that's used to do that is similar to the well-known PI Performance Monitor Interface and is currently available in a 32-bit flavor only - and hence does not read 64-bit Windows Performance Counters. While there probably already is a Punchlist Item (PLI) for this - and chances are we are actively working on this now - I would suggest you write to TechSupport@osisoft.com and inquire about it.