14 Replies Latest reply on Apr 19, 2011 3:03 PM by spilon

    PI in the Post-PC era

    Ahmad Fattahi

      In light of the most recent memo by Microsoft's chief architect, I have posted a note on my blog. The idea is to see how you in the forefront of PI development see it is going. Does PI ever fit in the Cloud model? What are the positive and negative sides? See it for yourself!

        • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
          wpurrer

          Hello

           

          I'm very critic about this pi in the cloud, but i found a positive thing:

          PI Server is now lacking security settings that you can really sperate users on a pi server.

           

          What i need is more a "private PI-Cloud":

           

          * one PI - Server installed on my site,
          * where i can create areas in which the users can do everything (create tags, pe,...) but save.

           

          Regards

           

          Wolfgang

            • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
              MichaelvdV@Atos

              I've used my brand new blogging priviliges and written a 'reply' to Ahmad's post and the comments Here. It's meant to be thought provoking and maybe provide a another angle of thought into PI and Cloud Computing.

               

               

                • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                  Ahmad Fattahi

                  @Wolfgang: I'm glad some suitable ideas came out of the whole discussion; that's after all the whole idea. By the way, why do you say there are no ways to separate users? How about creating groups of users and giving them different appropriate rights/privileges?

                   

                  @Michael: Go All-Stars Will talk to you about that on your blog

                   

                   

                    • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                      wpurrer

                      Ahmad

                      @Wolfgang: I'm glad some suitable ideas came out of the whole discussion; that's after all the whole idea. By the way, why do you say there are no ways to separate users? How about creating groups of users and giving them different appropriate rights/privileges?

                       

                       

                      I manage a pi server with about 80 Interfaces, 100.000 Tags,... I'm well aware of the groups. but if you give a user the right to change or create points you can hijack the whole security of the server:

                      • he can create tags which access interfaces which he normally isn't allowed to,
                      • he can create performance equations which can simply copy the data from other tags.


                      My Idea was, that all my keyusers (i have about 10 on my site) can create PI - PE by themselves...
                      I have also about 12 people who manage or are able to manage the tags on my interfaces.

                       

                      Please see also ([DEAD LINK] http://vcampus.osisoft.com/forums/p/848/3978.aspx#3978)

                      A private cloud server would be a nice solution ... where every keyuser has his area where he can work and also share his work, but he doesn't puts risk at the pi server.

                      The endusers should however see one pi server or otherwise you would suggest me to buy an EA and  set up a pi server for every keyuser.... that would be a typical osisoft workaround ;-)

                        • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                          Ahmad Fattahi

                          @Wolfgang: There are different places you can play with the security. one is at tag level where you can give a certain user/group only rights to those points. Also, you can set privileges on Database Security on a higher level. Once again that would be a very good fit for our Center of Excellence to jump in and give advice.

                           

                          And regarding private clouds, I think what is meant by "private" is that it would be proprietary to the organization as opposed to being a property of OSIsoft or any other third party entity. If you desire a sand box for every user you would need a development PI server for each of those users (vCampus Team or Enterprise membership? ).

                            • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                              Lonnie Bowling

                              So I just activated my MSDN Azure account and am thinking of trying to deploy a PI server.  Has anyone actually tried this?  I can't think of any reason this should not work.  It would be cool to set up an interface node, connect to the server on cloud and see what happends!

                                • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                                  Ahmad Fattahi

                                  This sounds so cool Lonnie! I will give it a shot too. Please keep us all posted how yours goes

                                  • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                                    MichaelvdV@Atos

                                    Lonnie Bowling

                                    So I just activated my MSDN Azure account and am thinking of trying to deploy a PI server.  Has anyone actually tried this?  I can't think of any reason this should not work.  It would be cool to set up an interface node, connect to the server on cloud and see what happends!

                                     

                                    I can assure you this will not work

                                     

                                    How are you planning to install a PI server? Let alone installing PISDK?

                                     

                                    I have used Azure on a number of occasions, mostly during the CTP, but also in the production environment. I don't know how much has changed since 3 months, but you cannot install applications like PI. You can deploy your own web projects, but that's about it.

                                     

                                    Your best guess would be to maybe create a linked server on SQL Azure (not sure about that yet....)

                                     

                                    Have a look at Amazon's Elastic Cloud, they offer full control over your system, but that's more like having your own hosted server.

                                      • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                                        Lonnie Bowling

                                        Yeah, I might be a little ahead of myself.  It looks like the features needed to deploy PI to Azure are not here yet.  According to the PDC talk it should be doable in the next few months though.  They will allow you to build a 2008R2 image using hyperV and then deploy it.  Also there is something where you can create an install package of some kind and deploy, I think that is under the App Fabric.  Maybe my test will have to wait until early next year. 

                                         

                                        On of the more cool PDC10 presentation I have seen so far is the Windows Phone 7 connected with Azure.  It is mind boggling on the possiblities.

                                          • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                                            wpurrer

                                            I think we have to define what is private and public cloud....

                                             

                                            private vs public cloud is just a deployment model:

                                             

                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing#Deployment_models

                                             

                                            private means inside the organization, public means outside ...

                                             

                                            PI is already cloud aware .. you can install it on a virtual machine and deploy it inside the cloud.
                                            And if you have a hyper - v farm ... you dynamically access more resources.

                                             

                                            In my view cloud is more a sales change then a technical change.

                                             

                                            What another way would be to change pi to allow multitenancy, that will also solve a few of my problems ...

                                             

                                             

                                              • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                                                MichaelvdV@Atos

                                                I agree that the terms get mixed up. In most of our discussions, we are talking about an 'Azure like' cloud environment, instead of the possibilities of 'private cloud' environments. Thanks for bringing that to everyones attention again!

                                                 

                                                Both deployment models offer different advantages, and both should be considered when considering a cloud like architecture.

                                                 

                                                I disagree with the 'PI is cloud aware' statement. PI is never meant to run in such an environment. You can run it on a virtualized system (like you suggested), but it doesn't meet the scalability, agility and multi tenancy that are key features of cloud computing (before I get lynched : in the Cloud Computing meaning of those terms)

                                                 

                                                It's nowhere near as 'cloud aware' as an Azure application for instance.

                                                 

                                                I do think that the term is being buzzed (just like SOA and OO once where), but I do not believe it is purely a marketing term. It truly is a paradigm shift from traditional computing and software development. 

                                    • Re: PI in the Post-PC era
                                      MichaelvdV@Atos

                                      Ahmad

                                      @Michael: Go All-Stars Will talk to you about that on your blog

                                       

                                      Nice! Haven't seen any replies at all yet though